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 ;D ;D Iv'e been in this club for around 4 years and as a member i get a bit pissed about this topic.It is there as a guide for new comers to the club as you get more involved you work out where you fit i know if Al put on a experienced ride at Fumina it is going to be very slick and a big day i look at who's going I WORK IT OUT FOR MY SELF what sort of day it will be.If i don't like it i don't go.I love the fact he puts on lunch it saves me having to worry about it.If Will puts on a nerrim ride with or without t -shirt i Know its a more social day and Will don't cook we eat out i also love this as its a great chance to catch up with other MATES And if Angus put on a Experienced ride i think he would be all alone. If we really have to be so correct about what level it is the people who say they care need to get all ride leaders and take them on a training day setting out what is expected of all ride leaders for ALL ride levels.I go on a lot of rides level 1-2 clubman and if there are any experienced rides and i dont care if i have to help change a tyre i wont sit there and watch as this shortens my day on the bike and i have never ridden with any one who is that selfish twice.So please lets stop ruining this club with politics as we all are here for the same intrest .You all no where you fit so try to fit in.Its a great club that was put together for riders to find riding buddies not to give us drama in or lives as im sure most of us have enough.Hope to see more happy faces out there soon ;) 

Here here, well said Mat,
Please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say, I'm not having a go at anybody..........Lately there has been experience rides put on, the way I see it experience is about how long you've ridden for, in my case I've ridden & raced for bikes for 42 years, not counting my younger years riding road bikes, yes UN licensed  ;D  anyway I class myself as a experienced rider, having said that I have to admit to my self that my age stops me from doing things that in my younger day I wouldn't think twice about, I don't mind the hard stuff, but I like the social rides, that's why I joined the club, so far I'm very happy I have.

With all the forum clubs around, it makes it harder for the club to attract new members, stop & think about it, why should ppl pay to be a member when they can meet heaps of ppl on the forums, that's why I reckon it's very important to stick together & make this club of ours the best it can be.

Looking forward to the HTFU ride on Saturday, we did my hill last weekend, I only needed a hand once, for the rest I picked out some good lines  ;D see ya's there on Saturday.

"Looking forward to the HTFU ride on Saturday, we did my hill last weekend, I only needed a hand once, for the rest I picked out some good lines   see ya's there on Saturday.

hey Frankie you better show the good lines :) :) :)

Bill

 ;D No worries mate, I'll show ya the good lines, buuuuuuut do you trust me ;D

Frankie - Boy, I'm an expert rider to, If I'm lucky I get about 3 X 15 minute bursts per ride, The rest of the day I'm a level 2 just trying to hang on.

well said boys.

im on the fence on this one as i have lead many a ride through other clubs and have heard it all.

for instance, i reckon i could conquer anything that Al's experienced fumina ride could throw at me...
but its the level if fitness i lack and that would make Al's ride a killer for me. i reckon i would want to bury him by the 100km mark :D
and thats why i wont do one...yet ;)

( sorry to use you as an example Al... what i mean is a ride full of skinny tracks and constant challenges )


its like the Pom says, learn your place and have fun ;D

then if you want, set youe sights on a challenge and try to better yourself ;)


my inspiration is that one day i will smash an experienced ride and i actually thank Al for giving me that vision.


just my 2 bobs...

cheers,

Menace

Ken, it works a little different for me, I need a bit of time to get into it, usually I ride my best on the way back to the cars ;D
My fitness is still not to bad, must be because I'm a chippy ;D
2 years ago I did a 7 day High Country ride with some DBW ppl  we did 200 k's per day,one rest day in Bright on the last day with about twenty k's to go, we were given an option to go back by road or track, I was surprised that some of the younger fellas went back by road, I took the track I was having a ball, I could have done it all over again, oh by the way most of the ride was by tracks & bloody big hills ;D I hope to be still be riding when I'm 70+

We have a very clear ride level system in this club, please remember we are a trail bike riding club not a Enduro or racing club, yes some of us love different challenges , some love special stages or sections of track which can be very technical, but are they trails ? I know that the up and coming HTFU ride has lots of these special tests in it, and I know my level of fitness or should I say lack of fitness is what stops me doing Als rides, I have no problems with most river crossings or slippery stuff or steep stuff up and down, or even overgrown tracks, but I do run out of puff so I would not go on Als ride in the fear of holding the other riders up. But I am happy to tackle what we class as clubman tracks and trails on other rides.
As long as the ride leader can understand and comprehend what is written in our grading system and they set there ride level accordingly there should be no confusion, and as Mat has said you should have an idea once you have been on a few different rides were your level of fitness and how low your kahoonas sit to be able to work out which rides suit you best.
There are days when I just want to ride, and there are days when I want to ride and have plenty of social interaction with my mates and fellow club members. If you do not appreciate poo stirring and having lots of laughs then do not come on my rides, cause no matter what level the ride I run there is always lots of laughs and poo stirring, which is why I tell ya to bring your sense of humor and smile along.   
Please do not get hung up on the grading system guys, if used as it's was designed to be used it is perfect for a Trail riding club. And if you feel that you are to good for our system then you should probably move onto a racing club or perhaps Warragul Club as there level 1 rides are like our average clubman ride, and if all you want to be is the best rider in AMTRA then shut your mouth and get on with it. just my 2 roberts worth. Will

Don't take this the wrong way guys but if a ride is listed as expert/experienced I expect to get back to the cars or pub absolutely rooted. Yes I have been riding a while and have good and bad days on the dirt but this is what I prepare for at this level no mater who is leading the ride. Eg. Al's ride would have done this last week if we had done the 200k's, shanes gough's bay ride is of this standard as many would tell you, Tims desert rides from a few years back were up there as is the 4day ride. At the moment most other rides fall into the clubman of lesser groups IMO. Lets leave the expert listing to what it is ment to be! A true hardcore ride with no pussing around no help unless your are broken not your bike and total satisfaction when you complete something very difficult ( it's not supposed to be for everyone)

Row.

purely out of curiosity , those of you who rode my rawson ,in your own opinion what would you class the ride level at , for future referance- seano

I feel it was a L2 & a Bit!!!

I'm not sure if the understanding of the ride levels appears to be so much of a problem anymore, most of us know what each ride leader is about, and if it gets too tough then show us the car park and we'll head home.  I think more the issue now is the lack of spread of diffrent ride levels, 12 months ago everyone was complaining that the club had gone soft and none of the rides were hard or challenging, now it's the other way round and those of us who just want a cruisy weekend out exploring with mates are left looking elsewhere for rides..

The level 1 and 2 rides are almost a thing of the past, with there being only around 3 L1 rides this year.  I and many others joined AMTRA for the L1 & 2 rides as I'm not yet in a position to ride often enough to improve to L2+ or Clubman, these were cruisy rides and you get a chance to meet simular people who aren't interested in riding like a bat out of hell, or climb Mt Everest all the time :-)

Anyway if AMTRA want to increase the member base then I believe this could be an area that needs attention as from what i've seen, new members are typically beginers or people revisiting this great pasttime and as such look for cruisier rides with less Hardening Up....

Seano, It was a top ride, most flowing tracks with a few nasty ones thrown in, distance was normal range. Id say Clubman but someone with a bit of level 2 practice could give it a crack once you spoke to them to sus it out unless wet...

Hate to inform you Dan, but you have passed level 1 and are already a level 2 rider.

So if Dan is a level 2 rider "and i agree" and i'm a Clubman rider, what do you class yourself Willy??

Well it’s good to see my name is still popping up. The only reason I decided to run my ride as an experienced ride was to stop the talk about ride levels and just get back to putting on the sort of rides I like to ride. I’ve only been riding bikes for nearly 6 years and all of them with Amtra and have traveled through the levels and have ridden all most every terrain and area that Amtra has had a ride on. Anyone who attended my first Experience ride will have worked out we did not do anything ridiculous hard nor anything you would not find on any other Clubman ride? How ever I do like to string together a lot of the type of tracks I like riding together and cut out the transport sections as much as possible. My rides as with all Amtra rides contain poo stirring and lots of laughs. And as always with Amtra lots of assistance when needed. I don’t class myself as an Experience rider and tend to ride with blokes who’s talents and skills far out way mine, who yet still enjoy the ride and style of the rides I put on. I am lucky to be quite fit and I work at it as it improves my riding and allows me to complete a day on the bike such as I Experience ride, and wake up the next day not even knowing I’ve been on the bike the day before. I don’t feel good about feeling pressured into labeling my ride as Experience to keep the peace. To be honest it feels fake and untrue. If I put my ride down as Clubman, i'm told to adamant its more than that? Put it down as Experienced and you supposedly full of yourself and need to join a completive club? I will ride in the desert soon and will struggle as I have before, on a ride that is of a low level than mine according to its rating? Matt has the right idea about the levels and knowing or learning about the ride, its leader and it previous riders is more important the level attached to it!
Al

PS. Comment from the close of my Experienced ride, good Clubman day by all 10 riders new and old to Amtra.


PS2. I have put on several level 2 rides, several clubman rides and now 1 bulls#$t Experinces ride this year. I have helpped out on a couple Level 1-2 rides for the year, what the f@^k more do people want. They to can go and put on a ride if there isnt anything on the calendar.

Oh yea I know, I'm more L2, but we do/did have a lot of L1's that aren't being catered for except for Zeb's rides which are getting a large turn out when he's able to run them..  More my point is that the number of rides has dropped off substantially compared to this time last year, and those that are being put on are more L2+ and Clubman now, so if you want a problem to solve then it's not the definition of the ride levels, it's the number of rides and the spread of different ride levels. Just my 2 cents worth..   ;D

time to step up to the plate and put on a few level ones then dan

are you sure ,i thought it was much harder as i never had to put you on a corner. cos you were so far behind

Thats a good idea Sean, I'm sure Seano and I will help you out Dan if you can be tempted. Will

What's saying I haven't Seano, they're just not necessarily with the club.  Also if I put on a large club ride then a lot of people are likely to get lost, finding my way round isn't my strength. ???  Anyway I'm just pointing out how things are different to 12 months ago..

??? ??? ??? ???

Hey Dan the thing about leading a ride is that the guys behind do not know when you are lost, it's fekin brilliant, I get lost all the time, but we always have a great ride and always get home safe and sound. If you are keen mate I will help you do one at Neerim. Will

Well 'aint this a hot topic tonight! I think everyone has posted valid points and I also think the grading system works quite well..
I consider myself a level 2-3 grade rider,but when it comes to rides I'll happily do a level 1.If only to be out there in the first place,or even have a bit of advice to offer,go sweep etc..
At the other end of the scale I'll see posts for level 4 rides and straight away think "Give that a miss,don't want to hold up the good riders"
Then there's something like a HTFU ride which I might think
"Thats for the hardcore dudes" but there's the help will be given clause,so someone who's not sure at least knows they won't be left at the bottom of a gnarly hillclimb.
I've never been on an AMTRA ride where there has been discontent due to a slower rider.Even if a few blokes go for a quick loop while an issue is sorted,at the end of the day everyone had a good ride..

HTFU 3 was booked out well in advance (and I'm working)so pissed off I missed that one..

Saw you on the morning of your ride Seano (with Matt and James)hope you had a good one!

Maybe, maybe not :D :D :D

"Here's a good one"
If you can't mono for no less than 50mtrs your Not a Clubman. Clubman should be able to control his bike with ease on the back wheel.

here's a better one:

How about anyone who doesn't ride a Husaberg is a pussy.

 :P

How about we set up the ride levels  like so;
Level 1
level 2
clubman
experienced
Husaberg

Your onto something!

I like it!

Pete, I've never seen you in control no matter which wheel your on!!

Does ktm fall into that husaberg level or isnt it prestigous enough? They are pretty much the same bike lol

Some ppl like to make fun of the grading, I reckon it's time to sort the grading out once for all,I think that Ian said that he put the grading in place 30 odd years ago, I reckon the grading is spot on for what the club stands for,having said that, things change in time, so maybe the grading should be bought up to date, I reckon that the committee should look into it.

It has, and decided there was no need to change.

If you want to write another set, go for it!  Submit it to the Committee and we'll have a look at it.

This ride level discussion has become a bit of a joke.

We are looking at ways of increasing the club membership and anyone reading this would probably think we are a bunch of dickheads that have absolutely no idea. 

I think there is a major problem here because if we lose a ride leader like Al then we are doing something wrong.  It aint rocket science here.  If you are not sure where you fit in as a rider disregard your own ego and start at the bottom (Level 1).  If it is too easy move up to the next level.  Get to know the ride leaders and other riders and there is no problem.

The problem I see is that some riders underestimate their ability.  Unfortunately there are some that over estimate their ability.  The club ratings should work well if the ride leaders are realistic when putting on a ride.  We  dont want to put new members off when looking at our rides as we realistically only have four ride levels.  If most rides are posted as Clubman when they are in fact only level 2 it deters people from joining the rides as they may consider them too hard given the club ratings.

I am only a relatively new member to this club and most rides I have been on have been great.  I am still not really sure where I fit in as a rider and tend to stick to the rides I know so I dont hold anyone up on a ride or put myself in a position where I am not comfortable.  The ride leaders need to be realistic when they are posting a ride and not over rate their rides.  If the average ride leaders are putting on Clubman rides then the only option for the better riders is to put on Experienced Rides.  As we have seen there are very few experienced rides put on because of various reasons but mainly because the good riders dont over estimate their ability.

Hope I have not offended anyone and that is not my intent but I am really concerned about the Clubs future if we lose a ride leader like Al.

Well said, Daz.

You sound like Committee material!

Maybe I am wasting my time being the bean counter!

Darren for Prez?

You are spot on Darren and I for one am well and truly over it and like Al I will not be putting any rides on any time in the foreseeable future.

talking 4 myself I think you do an exelent job and your rides provide a callange that people need or require. I believe that a full day of technical tracks with little or no rest between them does require a higher skill level and fitness than the AVERAGE amtra rider.That said as an AVERAGE sometimes VERY AVERAGE amtra rider I hope to spend a day in Fumina with you after i get a bit more bike fit so you don't have to cut your loop down because i have hit the wall

I don't have a problem with it, I just wish this grading thing stops.

well said Darren

LETS JUST GO RIDING....

I agree.  If we stuff up and get on a ride we should not be on then we wont do it again.  Get out there go riding and we should all be happy.

You might be on to something here peter !
level 1    front wheel 300mm and below
level 2    500mm to 700mm
clubman    700mm to 900mm
experience 900mm and above

If this grading problem stops, then someone will have to start another issue to crap on about!!

I'm a Clubman and so is my Wife!!!

It seems that if you can Breath, "your a Clubman these days"

Lets just call everyone a Clubman , and leave it at that!!!

You serious Peter?  Your wife goes harder than most CLUBMAN riders I have seen!

Hi all

I'm not a member at present but that will be changing shortly, I have attended 1 ride at this stage which was Zebs lvl 1 ride a few weeks back.
I'm getting older and more and more injuries are starting to show up which I believe hinders me a little on the bike and I'm just getting back into dirt bikes after riding roadies for many years, I know I can manoeuvre a bike, but my technical skills are still lacking, I chose Zebs lvl 1 ride as a starting point to see where my actual level was compared to other riders.
I did not want to go on a ride and spoil somebody elses ride, due to them having to wait for me etc.
I do not know any of the leaders, or even the riding areas, so the skill level system was ideal for me.

I appreciate that it must be hard sometimes to label a ride but for inexperienced riders like myself, if helps for sure.

I also ride push bikes with a social club, the group has got faster and faster with better equipment appearing all the time, this starts to put off perspective new members because they do not think they can keep up, so the club started a beginners type ride, a lot slower and shorter rides, mountain bikes etc in a bid to get new members which has worked, I would compare this to the level 1 rides

Cheers
Mick