AMTRA.com.au

I have asked this before and had very little response.
But I would like to ask it again and hopefully get some replies..

Have you heard of, or used, or considered using an automatic clutch?

In particular the Rekluse clutch. There are several options from them.
http://www.rekluse.com/

If I were to supply a Z-start Pro auto clutch to a club member would you like to try it out?

There are a number of reasons for me wanting to try this, of which I cant explain fully right now.

I will give it a go if you want a ginny pig Stew. Will

Part of being a ginny pig, would involve letting other club members ride your bike to experience the product..

Stew. Ive riden a KTM300 with Rekluse clutch and found it on the technical tracks to the grestest thing ever! When you popped up over something without enough momentum the bike sat and idled instead of stalling, which was great for saving energy. And not having to juggle the clutch in the tight stuff was also cool. The three things i hated about it was the feeling of no engine braking at all. A big part of which was the fact of it being a two stroke (live off 4stroke engine braking) and the way it made the front end feel. Sorry that was the KTM. All in all i liked it, but didnt like its price! It would really suit the riding i do which it 80% tight and very technical.
AL

That would not be a problem as long as they respect the power of the 540

We've got so many Yamaha WR450s or Honda CRF450 in the club you should send one of them , then if one hates it we could put in some one elses bike. Just a thought.

540 "Small Bore"!!!
I'm up for a good Bike Thrashing.

Tested a newish 450 Berg with one and loved it until I went down the first real steep hill. It reminded of my AE430 - engine braking slowing down to a speed where the clutch disengages and off you go. It happens because the centrifugal forces holding the clutch engaged become too low when the RPM of the clutch drops. You can re-ingage the clutch by blipping the throttle if you are brave enough.
The other nice surprise was stopping on a steep climb and stalling the bike in gear so you can park it to help somebody, it does'nt work because with the engine stopped there is no clutch engagement so it's instant reverse.
But on tight technical stuff it was great once you got used to it, just forget about the clutch lever and hold on, impossible to stall even when stopping in any gear, you can also start the bike in gear without using the clutch.

Thats what your wife told me, your always up for a good thrashing  ;D ;D ;D

But there's nothing like Clutch control, especially when it comes to Clutched Mono's Ken. Next thing we'll have Down Hill Control and Hill Hold Control followed by Cruise Control and anti slide.

...and cup holders!

 ::)

don't forget the tow pack!!

A mate (yes I have some) rides an FE570 with Rekluse and a Clake, he quite likes it. It gives him no stall, clutch control and a LH rear brake lever.

I have thought about it but with my bikes it really does over capitalise them.

So if you want a WR450F test mule let me know.

As with anything "different" there are sometimes trade-offs.
You will still have some engine braking until the RPM drops below the preset threshold, near idle speed. Another thing is you cant "bump" start the bike.. But never having a stalling issue is a very good thing. In technical situations and difficult hillclimbs they are magical...
The EXP core clutch, works just like a normal clutch, except at idle speed only it will be disengaged. No stall, but you ride it like a normal clutch bike..

One of the issues I see in Australia is the cost...........

Keep the talk going, I am listening to everybodies input.

I also rode the FE450 that Ken borrowed which had the Recluse.
 I didnt like the lack of engine braking which I think is too much of a tradeoff to avoiding a stall here and there on a hill.
A Recluse wont get you up a hill, but engine braking will get you down.

I have to disagree with you Rob.  You should not rely on engine braking for anything. It is unpredictable and uncontrolable.  This why God invented the person who invented brakes.. Use your brakes to slow down. uphill or down hill. Your feet should always be on the pegs for rear brake and gear selection duties and your hands should be on the handle bars for front brake and throttle control Any of the riding classes available will teach this, the Yamaha class, Shane Watts Dirtwise school etc..

Remember that we are talking about an auto clutch, not an auto gearbox. If you have selected the correct gear for decelleration, there will be engine braking because the clutch is engaged by centrifical force. (RPM's) It does not freewheel even on decelleration, until idle speed.  You must still change gears and be in the correct gear at all times, nothing different here. While I do ride a 200 2 stroke which has less engine braking to start with. If going down a hill and the rear wheel is rotating it is turning the gearbox-clutch in excess of 1500 rpm then the clutch is engaged and whatever engine braking is available is working
I can see we have some misinformation amongst people, maybe riding a clutch not set up correctly..  AND there are other brands of auto clutch available and some work differently..
We are not talking slipper clutches either that is another kettle of fish more associated with road bikes.

I might have to make a trip back home and have a demo weekend.  ;D

Over here in the US the average trail rider just loves the Rekluse auto clutch..  It has taken the Pro's a bit longer to warm up to it.. A lot of the newer stuff, EXP Core and such are where they are trying to win over the pro's. If you watch any USA pro motorcross and you see them crash, they just run over pick up the bikes and go.. Guess what, it had some form of auto clutch that was not engaged at idle.

Keep giving me you stories and opinions, good or bad.

Oh and Rob, not picking on you or anything. But a Rekluse will most certainly help a lot of people on gnarly uphills. I have had both normal and Rekluse clutches in my 200 and I wont ride without one now..


I am trying to help Rekluse and find a more economical way for you guys to have access to them.

Hi Stew,

I have a thing called a Clake on my bike www.clake.com.au that is made right here in Victoria.  Bit different to the Rekluse but I rate it very highly.  It basically puts the rear brake up on the clutch lever.  You keep the benefits of a clutch but also gain the advantage of a rear brake.  It also makes it hard to stall the bike as the clutch engages the more you apply the brake.  The control on downhills is amazing, you lose some engine braking as the clutch also starts to engage but the feel for the rear brake through your fingers means you rarely lock it up.  The one thing that I wasn't expecting is that on uphills if you slip the clutch you are also able to control the rear wheel turning.  Definitely gives much better tracton control on a WR450.

An interesting fact is that the bloke who makes them said he sells a hell of lot more to the US than in OZ.  For some reason the Yanks seem to be keen to putting the rear brake up on the handlebars, or for some type of auto clutch.

Regards

Simon

I have been reading a bit about the rekluse and would really like to try one ,the one thing that concerns me is the lack of engine braking ,especially if having to bulldog my bike down the hill from hell!
I thought about adding the left hand rear brake but then you loose the clutch lever for spooling up the revs to lift the front wheel over logs etc.

Another thing to consider is the amount of extra debris that may come from the semi auto clutches. My AE430 1st gear clutch wore quickly and there was a lot of extra muck in the gearbox oil. Being a 2 stroke meant it did'nt get into the engine oil but how does it effect the 4 strokes?

With getting over logs etc the Recluse clutch was no problems because if you wanted to flip the clutch lever to get the revs up you could just like a normal clutch.

On my AE430 I fitted a clutch lever to the vacant spot on the left handle bar and hooked it up to the rear brake via a cable, brilliant feel for down hill braking, loved it and still miss it.

My KTM 200XC is an 06 model. it still has the original fibre plates in it. Last time I had the clutch cover off to take care of an oil leak, I checked the clearances and it was still in spec..  The recommended oil for a Rekluse is Shell Rotella 15w40. Non synthetic.
Some people use a left hand mounted rear brake.  The clutch is still important for some people,.  Not everybody will like or want an auto clutch.

People who have burnt clutch plates with an auto clutch, usually are riding in the wrong gear for the conditions.

Check this document to see the tunability of the Rekluse Z-Strat Pro clutch to suit your bike and riding style.

http://www.rekluse.com/193-293_mc_Tuning_Guide_z-Start_Pro_012507_Chart.pdf

So what is the most popular bike we have within the Amtra ranks?

I think maybe the WR 450, what year models? There are different kits for 07-09 and earlier models.

Maybe we could have something set-up for the HCR ride weeekend

Mine's an 07.  ;)

OK I WILL BE LUCKY 13

It deletes the clutch all together dosnt it?

What about not having a clutch to use.
Forget about this whole stalling thing, What about when you wont to pop the front over a log - opps no clutch.
What about when your just about up a hill in second and its boging down but first is to high - clutch would be good here.

river crossings, keeping the revs up so it wont stall in the water- good here aswell

Go for a ride and think how many times you use the clutch other than starting and stoping?

I wouldnt even think about having no clutch

I had a Z-start Pro on my 06 WR450 and on the bikes demise, it was the first thing added to my 09 model.

It has advantages and disadvantages;

Much easier on the uphills, you can stop and roll on without effort, bounce over obstacles without stalling and is overall more controlled. When you get near the top of a hill where you would normally bog down, you don’t because the clutch will slip controllably without stalling. The only downside is if you loose traction or get stuck, you can’t kill the engine and hold your position, you need to keep the rear brake on.

Downhill isn’t as bad as reported, engine braking is the same as on any bike until you get to the stall point. The stall point is adjustable through the setup on installation and mine is currently set to drag slightly at idle. This means that you need to be almost at the point where you would be using the clutch on a normal setup anyway before it will fully disengage. It does get more difficult if you need to paddle with the right foot on a steep downhill though as you will loose rear braking completely.

Tight trails and stalling on logs is great. You can also still use it to lift the front on logs as with a normal clutch. Clutch pull is lighter at low revs but has normal pull as the revs rise which is a good thing on a cable clutch bike.

Overall the advantages greatly outweigh the disadvantages. My only question is whether it is worth going for the left hand rear brake and using a shorty clutch lever.

The advantage with the clake is that is a clutch and a left hand brake.  You can still clutch it to lift the front over logs etc but only really crap bits you can put both feet down yet Stijl apply the brake.  I reckon it's the best of both worlds.  It is hard to explain how you can have a clutch and a brake all in the one lever but trust me it works.

On the FE450 I borrowed the clutch was dragging at idle so unless you select neutral "before" you stop there is going to be clutch wear. Is there any extra debris in the oil from the recluse or others?

Dave - you can flip the clutch lever with the recluse to lift the front wheel, and use it normally for up and down gear changes.

If I fitted one I would definately have a rear brake lever on the clutch side. When I gave up on the AE430 auto g'box I swopped it for a 6 speed manual but retained the rear brake on the bar. The clutch could be disengaged and then held with the two outside fingers while the other two reached over the clutch lever to the brake lever which was mounted inboard so you grabbed the end of the lever for max mechanical advantage. Loved it and still miss it, and I am looking at the 450 for a refit.

Thanks for that SteveC.  
Steve has given a good description of what it all about. It is one of those things that until you try it, it is hard to grasp how well it all works.

I have not heard of the Clake before, but it sounds intriging..  What if you wanted to fan the clutch out of a turn to increase revs.?  Sounds like the traction control side of it might work all the time.

You can still do that, have a look at the website (www.clake.com.au).  It is all to do with the settings of the cams.  Basically the first part when you pull in the lever is to enough to give you clutch slip and then rear brake starts to comes on more prgressively as you keep pulling in the lever.  It doesnt take long to get a feel for where the transition is between the two.  If you want more or less overlap you can get different cams.  It is quite expensive but is tranferable from bike to bike.  It is amazing to come into corners and be able to keep the rear brake just off the locking point.  You can also come into right hand corners put the foot out but still apply rear brake if needed.

Simon, the footpegs were put there for a reason. No trail rider should be using a foot as stability in corners. Ever seen a spiral fracture, not fun.

Learn clutch, brake and throttle control. Save your money and spend it on suspension.

Stewart,  try < www.clake.com.au >  Good aussie invention !!.
Phil R.

I did check out the Clake. An amazing piece of engineering. And it is Aussie made  ;D