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Shane R
Posts: 17
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« on: October 04, 2007, 07,41:14 AM » |
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Sun Oct 28th level 2+ ride at Murrundindi meeting at Glenburn roadhouse at 8am sharp! Bring enough fuel for a 100 km loop and lunch on the trail. This ride is open to AMTRA members only! Please ring Peter to secure your spot on 0418 338 005.
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Serge C
Full Member 2013/2014
Posts: 3011
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 07,44:23 AM » |
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OMG!
Look who's back on-line!
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"He may look like an idiot, he may sound like an idiot, but don't let that fool you...he really is an idiot!" - Groucho Marx.
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 11,46:36 AM » |
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Peter is leading this ride, but who is he? Given that this is in the member area it would be appropriate to also provide the full name. Who it is leading a ride can somtimes directly relate to the actual level of the ride, which may not be strictly as per the definitions and may influence a decision to go or not.
Dennis
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Wade E
Full Member 2013/2014
Posts: 350
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2007, 11,01:55 AM » |
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Peter Lavell is the ride leader, he ran this ride in july Shane Roberts gave a glowing verbal ride report on it. I have ridden this since with Peter and believe me its one of best rides you can do on the calender at the moment with heaps of single track, hills, ruts, logs and fast sections. Very well thought out and organised ride. Please support Peter for this ride and I am sure he will continue to run it.
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2007, 02,35:56 AM » |
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It was a great ride led by Peter. He had the tracks linked up very well. There were lots of challenges and great riding. I think it was clearly a Clubman level, with lots of tight technical stuff and some massive rocky hills. I recommend the ride highly. I found it to be a hard ride in parts but lots of fun and interest. It could be real hard in the wet...then Clubman +.
Dennis Dorman
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Keith Coota
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2007, 03,30:55 AM » |
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Take the two barstard hills out of it and i could of gone to work the next day with out walking like a cripple
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DRZ 400
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2007, 03,41:28 AM » |
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Check out the photos in the Ride Pictures in the Gallery section, I just put several up there...should find one or 2 of you....you were on the DRZ right? I agree that there was one hellof a bastard of a rocky hill that I needed help on as well. More momentum next time and I recon i could have made it in one go. I watched you do several other technical sections very well. Second time around it will seem easier..after the bruises heal!
Dennis Dorman
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Shane R
Posts: 17
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2007, 10,43:22 AM » |
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I tend to disagree with you Dennis I have done this exact ride IN the wet and would say it was only clubman level. In the dry this is definately only a level 2+ ride there are some challenge sections I agree but it is frustrating when members are constantly upgrading the level of rides when they are not as hard as some make out.
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Paul Smith
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2007, 12,05:32 PM » |
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I tend to disagree with you Dennis I have done this exact ride IN the wet and would say it was only clubman level. In the dry this is definately only a level 2+ ride there are some challenge sections I agree but it is frustrating when members are constantly upgrading the level of rides when they are not as hard as some make out. Strictly speaking if the average rider needs help then it's a Clubman ride. Dennis is a far better than average rider (average looking maybe :wink:). If he needs help then it would have to be Clubman level The best thing we can do is encourage riders to call ride leaders and TOGETHER work out whether they will be able to cope with. For example I'd ask anyone keen on going on Shane's Gough's Bay ride if they were half mountain goat or whether they have ever made it up the Woods lookout hill at Marysville ? The trick is not to fall into the trap of trying to grade rides based on your own abilities - you have to think of the average rider. Or in Shane's case - if he could do the ride with one hand tied behind his back - that's the method I use - Dennis has seen it on the Marysville ride ! |
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2007, 01,02:28 PM » |
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Thanks Paul. I must strongly disagree with our club captain, Shane. I have done many clubman rides and mang level 2 rides and maybe I had a bit of an off day, but this was one of the hardest rides I have done in the 10 plus years at amtra...harder than the old Wet and Wild rides in the same area that Colin Boyd used to lead, which i recall being Clubman. Harder than any of the infomuse Level 2 +++ rides that Craig used to put on that were also great rides where I learnt a lot. Perhaps we need a review of our ride classifications, but the classification MUST not be dictated by someone with the expertise and riding ability of Shane. Listen to the average rider as Paul suggests. It was not just one or 2 tough hills, it was full on technical stuff all day. Ask others what they thought.
This will not stop me from going on another of Peter's rides. I liked it a lot and had a great day and appreciated the help I did get in 2 situations. There were a few others who also appreciated some much needed assistance in a few spots. My point is that if it is advertised as Level 2 (even with the meaningless +) we will get intermediate riders coming along and some with have a really bad day. It is better to put it down as clubman and then there can be no misunderstanding. Peter does have some additional optional challenge tracks he can throw in for the more adventurous.
It is up to others to recommend to peter and other ride leaders how to classify their ride. In this case I think it was classified too low.
Dennis
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Paul Smith
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 01,48:57 PM » |
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It really is tricky this ride classification stuff. What I found is that a lot of blokes will not turn up for a Clubman ride. If you advertise the ride as level 2+ you get 10 or 15 or so. I thought this was because of lack of confidence of some of the guys so I made one of my old Kinglake rides a 2+
When I shut up for a second to take breath one of them said I can do this stuff but I'm just not that keen on it - all I want is flowing easy tracks. That was when it hit me - I love the challenges but the rest could not be bothered they wanted a nice easy day out.
And there were a lot of blokes in that same boat, they'd done all of the challenges but were stuffed and were not looking forward to going to work the next day. One bloke even went home halfway through the ride because it was too hard.
I'd stuffed up. I really had and I realised it. I had reasonable numbers but very few repeats because it was just too hard.
I'm older and wiser now. (but not as good looking !)
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Wade E
Full Member 2013/2014
Posts: 350
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 11,24:44 AM » |
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Talked to Peter Levell about this ride and while he called it a level 2+ Ken, Dennis and Brad felt it was more a clubman ride so Peter sugested a level 3 to fill the gap. Whatdoyareckon?
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2007, 12,02:13 PM » |
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I don't understand the reluctance to call it a Clubman ride. Although Paul does make a good point that level 2 and 2+ rides mostly get more riders attending.
We currently have 4 ride levels..
Level 1 is for "Riders with little or no riding skills" - beginners in other words.
Level 2 are "usually easy rides with lots of assistance given"
Clubman or the 3rd level is for "riders of average skills...assistance given if required".
Experienced is the 4th level -see Amtraction for definition.
To me this places Peter's ride very clearly above level 2 and not in the Expert level. Hence Clubman seems to be the best fit. With the definitions as published in Amtraction most of our rides would fall into the Clubman level. Mostly the only exception would be Phil's regular Marysville cake shop run. This is specifically to provide for beginners and new members to have a go and the ride can and is adjusted according to the capabilities of the least capable riders and can rise from a level 1 at the start to level 2 and sometimes clubman by the afternoon, particlarly when it is wet.
I don't think we need any more than the 4 levels already defined. I really don't care if you call the ride a very hard Level 2 or an easy clubman in the dry. I also don't want to put Peter off from putting the same ride on again. It is a great ride and challenges are why we go out there. The important issue it to clearly grade rides in accordance with the definitions we have.
My head hurts now. I wish i had never raised the topic.
Dennis
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Paul Smith
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2007, 04,42:31 AM » |
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If you blokes who are all experienced are saying that it is Clubman level then it probably is and calling it anything but is not really being fair to the members. As a club need to encourage people to go on these rides and not to be scared off.
Here's the rub...If I'd have known how complex the ride was I'd have been there instead of up at Toolangi (Buxton side) clearing tracks with Phil Randall. One of the reasons that I didn't go because it was listed as a Level 2 ride.
Before you start thinking why do I go on Phil's rides then ? It's to help Phil if he needs a hand or wants to split into two groups.
:idea:
What do you think of making making a regular L1-2 (him) and Clubby(me) ride with lunchtime meet up. It's a novel idea that would allow almost all of the club to ride on the same day and that's something we have been trying to get sorted for years.
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dennisd
Full Member 2012/2013
Posts: 222
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 04,00:44 AM » |
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Paul, I like your idea.
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